Cornering

[Pilotman28]

After last night I finally realized where my weakest link is when I'm riding, cornering. I have to slow down so much when I'm cornering tighter turns it slows me down and I have to burst speed to catch back up. With all the switchbacks and turns out there a few turns and I've lost sight of the group.

Normally I'll wait til I'm almost in the turn before I start to brake and depending on how much sand is in the turn I'll brake even through the turn just to keep my balance. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I feel as though when I'm coming around the corner a little too fast I'll either understeer or if there is sand I'll wash out. I'm not certain if this is a tire problem or just a technique tweak I need but I'm ready to get some advice on this because it's just rediculous.

I'm NOT that slow of a rider but those turns slow me down which makes me have to expend a lot more energy to get my speed back up and in doing so wears me out over the course of the trail.

HELP!

[Idoeyes]

Flow is the mental state of operation in which the person is fully immersed in what he or she is doing, characterized by a feeling of energized focus, full involvement, and success in the process of the activity. ...

[Pilotman28]

ok archimedes I understand I have to be focused but what keeps me more up right in the turns is the feeling of my front wheel sliding on me. So how about a bit more direction other than Tai-chi

[Idoeyes]

General capacities to perform a set of tasks developed through the acquisition of experience and/or training which require more than just knowing about the subject.

[carl]

cornering has always been a problem for me since i'm taller and have a higher center of gravity. i try to do most of my braking before the turn and i stay slightly on the brakes through the turn. i also lean back slightly to keep my weight off the fron wheel incase it does wash out. the idea is to not make sudden or harsh movements, just try to flow through the turn. use the berm. the pate trail is excellent for practising. of course this could be all wrong which is why i'm so friggin slow.

[superdave]

After last night I finally realized where my weakest link is when I'm riding, cornering. I have to slow down so much when I'm cornering tighter turns it slows me down and I have to burst speed to catch back up. With all the switchbacks and turns out there a few turns and I've lost sight of the group.

Normally I'll wait til I'm almost in the turn before I start to brake and depending on how much sand is in the turn I'll brake even through the turn just to keep my balance. Is there something I'm doing wrong? I feel as though when I'm coming around the corner a little too fast I'll either understeer or if there is sand I'll wash out. I'm not certain if this is a tire problem or just a technique tweak I need but I'm ready to get some advice on this because it's just rediculous.

I'm NOT that slow of a rider but those turns slow me down which makes me have to expend a lot more energy to get my speed back up and in doing so wears me out over the course of the trail.

HELP!

Fortunately, I feel that cornering is a strong point with me. I feel like I can gain ground on most people through the corners. Most of that ground quickly evaporates as soon as we get on a climb, so that's the part I need to work on. Without seeing what you are doing, all I can do is tell you how I approach a corner. The frame of mind that I'm in going into a corner is not "how fast can I get through this corner", but more "how little can I slow down through this corner". My dad, who raced eduros on motorcycles for 20 yrs, use to always tell me it's not the fastest person that wins the race, it's the guy that slows down the least. The perfect corner (nice, consistant radius) would call for you to brake entering the corner (before you turn the handlebars), apex in the exact middle of the corner, and accelerate (pedal) through the exit. Unforunately, these are offroad trails that are constantly changing, so there are too many variables (soil, radius of the corner, etc) for the perfect corner rules to apply to every turn and some may call for some improvisation. I would say that 50% of cornering is done before you even turn into it. You have to get your bike in the correct position on the trail to set yourself up for the fastest line. Every corner has a different line and my line may be different than your line based on our skill sets, so that is the part that you have to learn for yourself. If you are apexing late in the corner, you'll enter the corner shallow or low on the trail/berm. If you are apexing early, ride nice and high on the trail/berm while entering. I typically do 80% of my braking with the front brake and only use my rear brake if I have entered a corner way too quickly. I usually use a feathering technique, modulating the front brake rather than just grabbing a handful of lever. This slows the front wheel down just enough to grab the trail and set you into the corner since most of your traction is gained with the front wheel. The last thing you will need to work on is making a conscious effort to keep your eyes up and looking through the corner instead of the ground in front of your tire. I use to constantly have to remind myself to keep my chin up through the corner. Night riding really, really helps with learning this. After a while, it just becomes 2nd nature. Overall, cornering is kind of a trial and error affair and it really just takes time in the saddle to polish your skills at it, but this will give you a few things to think about while you're learning.

[natepac]

after riding behind you last night i can say that you need to get out of the saddle more instead of just sitting on the seat and trying to corner.

[superdave]

after riding behind you last night i can say that you need to get out of the saddle more instead of just sitting on the seat and trying to corner.


I never stand up through the corners. Maybe that's just a hardtail thing? Take notice in what Carl says about being smooth. A quick note about sand because I didn't address that. I try to take as straight as a line as I can in the sand and really square off my corners. The less time spent with the handlebar turned, the better. It also helps to unweight the front wheel a little and try not to fight the bike too much. Try to loosen your grip a little through the sand.

[natepac]

not so much stand up as lift ass off the seat a hair so you can shift your weight around.

[Pilotman28]

I knew Nate would be able to tell me a bit since he rode behind me last night. Normally I'm the slowest guy on the evening rides so I'm not able to get infront of anyone and get advice. I do normally stay on my seat the entire time and maybe yeah I should get up and shift more towards the inside and lean it more.

I'll tend to poke my knee out a bit like a knee-dragger but I get back up right when my bike starts to slip out from under me. A couple times last night I leaned too much and my back kicked out on me too. It's just frustrating really. I know i could be a lot better I just need more practice and some help is all.

[superdave]

I knew Nate would be able to tell me a bit since he rode behind me last night. Normally I'm the slowest guy on the evening rides so I'm not able to get infront of anyone and get advice. I do normally stay on my seat the entire time and maybe yeah I should get up and shift more towards the inside and lean it more.

I'll tend to poke my knee out a bit like a knee-dragger but I get back up right when my bike starts to slip out from under me. A couple times last night I leaned too much and my back kicked out on me too. It's just frustrating really. I know i could be a lot better I just need more practice and some help is all.

If you want to start making it out for the Wed evening rides, I could follow you occasionally to see what you are doing. It's a much slower paced ride than Tues nights.

[Pilotman28]

What time do you normally get started on Wednesdays? I might make time at least a few times to get some help. It's worth it to me.

[robbieb]

All good points …………..My 2 cents….. ….. Braking before the turn not in the turn a must, then the technique for cornering is proper weight on the outside foot, 6 o’clock position if not pedaling through the turn and inside hand pressure on the handlebar, i.e. more downward right hand pressure the more u turn to the right. Also very important is center of gravity, rider weight over the tire that’s on the ground, lean the bike with the downward hand pressure not by leaning your body into the turn, this will help from washing out the front tire.

I am going to ride Wed about 5:30 if you would like some more info, just 1 easy lap

[superdave]

What time do you normally get started on Wednesdays? I might make time at least a few times to get some help. It's worth it to me.

I typically get there between 5:45 & 6

[natepac]

http://www.extreme.com/video/video.asp?vID=248&sWhere=tricks&sWhich=MTB

just ignore the part about taking your foot off the pedal, as this video is designed for downhill, but basic techniques are the same.

[Pilotman28]

I think that's what I'm doing wrong. Braking in the turn. The video did make note braking in the turn will bring the bike back up right. This Wednesday I've to work at a customer's place but next wednesday hopefully i can make it. In the mean time I'm going to try to do a better setup for the turn and not brake WHILE in the turn.

[superdave]

In the mean time I'm going to try to do a better setup for the turn and not brake WHILE in the turn.

Remember to look through the corner. You can also try this in your car (a good place is the large looping ramp if you are on I-10 westbound and getting onto I-110 southbound). Watch how much faster you corner if you are looking way ahead in the corner rather than just the area in front of your car. You may fix many of your problems just by keeping your chin up and looking through the corner.

[superdave]

http://www.extreme.com/video/video.asp?vID=248&sWhere=tricks&sWhich=MTB

just ignore the part about taking your foot off the pedal, as this video is designed for downhill, but basic techniques are the same.

Damn, after watching that video it looks like Robbie and I need to open a school on cornering. Between our two posts, we pretty much nailed it. Also, Nate, during last night's ride I was paying attention to whether or not I stand up in the corners. Just like the video shows, I tend to stand with my butt just off the saddle as I'm approaching (especially on downhills) and then sit once I start turning. So, we're both kind of right.

[natepac]

I think pilots main problem with cornering is lack of time on the bike. he seems to do WAY MORE talking about riding than actually doing it.:endo:

[WILDBILL]

Along with the skills, get in the mindset that its really a balancing act between going fast and staying upright. I think alot of people think oh well if i just do what they say then i can grip through the corner. When you do that you go way over the limit and you get frustrated. Get to the limit without going over. Also the biggest thing you can keep in your head is smooth smooth smooth. Be as smooth as possible. When your real jerky you waste energy and lose control. But yeah dave and robbie are right in the aspect of what you should be doing before, during, and after the turn. most of all go practice.

-Billy